Interview with Milan Djukic - lead programmer for Ripout
Feature
Dan (Hooked Gamers):
Where did you get the idea for Ripout initially? And what has the development process been like for you?
Milan (Pet Project Games):
Well, actually, we're all fans of the first-person genre in the first place. And then, of course, the horror movies from the 80s and 90s. So basically, when you mix those two, you get Ripout.
Dan:
Were there any specific horror movie influences?
Milan:
The Thing, obviously, but that’s just like one of the small influences. When you play the game, you will see all the references to those movies. There will be easter eggs, mini games, things like that.
Dan:
Got it. So, you're influenced more by the genre, by the general themes, rather than any specific film.
Milan:
Yeah, exactly. And then on the other side, we really went back and played all the first-person shooter games from the 90s. So basically, we knew that we wanted to do a First-Person Shooter kind of game [very early on]. So, it was easy for us.
Dan:
So, you're no stranger to games like Doom and System Shock?
Milan:
Absolutely. Absolutely. We play them all.
Dan:
What were some of the biggest challenges for you at any point during development? As in what would be an example of something you had to overcome, or learn more about?
Milan:
The Pet Gun for sure. I mean, we knew from day one that we wanted to have the Pet Gun be the player’s signature weapon. But you know how it goes, we have an idea, and then we were like: how are we going to implement this idea? So, we played around with it, and we knew we wanted to do with the Pet Gun, [in terms of functionality,] but then to actually make it work in-game, that was the biggest challenge for us. There's no easy answer to describe what we did to fix it. It was just trial and error for us. Finding the right balance was one of the most difficult issues we faced.
Dan:
That kind of leads into my next question. One of the core mechanics in Ripout is pets. If the recent demo game plays anything to go by, players will be very reliant on the pets they acquire and have already acquired for newcomers to the game who might be reading this. Can you clarify what pets are and how they impact the gameplay experience?
Milan:
Well, the pet or actually the Pet Gun is your gun, but it’s also your pet. So basically, it's only one but you can upgrade it.
Dan:
In the gameplay though, there are instances where the players can pick up other pets, or creatures. I saw one that forms into a cannon that the player has over your shoulder.
Milan:
Exactly. But those are not your pets. So actually, what your pet is doing, is that it actually attacks enemies, or if they're smaller types of creatures, then it just grabs them and brings them back to you. However, if they're bigger enemies, then the Pet Gun actually attacks them and takes something from them. That can be a weapon, or armour, or something else [that the player can use].
We have a story around that so that the pet is not only attacking them, but also analyzing their DNA. Your pet will pick up items whatever and then put it on your suit and things like that, you know, but it's just one pet you have just your own pet gun that attacks the other creatures and then brings them back to you. So, you can use them, but they are not your pets. Once you use them, they’re done.
Dan:
In the gameplay, there's this central hub of sorts that the player returns to between missions. Can you talk a bit about what players can expect from this area?
Milan:
Yeah, exactly. So, the central hub is actually your spaceship, to put it that way. Ripout is a co-op game, albeit one that you can still play as a solo player. When you're in co-op, you're the host of the game. Your friends actually come to your ship, which is your central hub. You can kind of put trophies that you earn there, and otherwise decorate your ship. Also on your ship, you and your friends can actually upgrade your pet guns, change your loadout, use the training course, stuff like that. You’ll use your ship to travel to and from missions.
Dan:
Got it. Kind of transitioning into the co-op element. How do you plan to balance the co-op multiplayer game play? Given the addition of pets, on top of the usual run-and-gun gameplay, that's a lot of firepower on the player’s side, let alone when you’ve got multiple players to consider. Your Steam page states that Ripout will feature some kind of scaling system. How's that going to function in-game?
Milan:
Exactly. So basically, what we want to achieve is, if you're playing a single player game, then you’ll be going up against a smaller number of enemies. But once you're playing co-op, then you have many more enemies. But that’s where the revival stations come into the picture. Your friends can actually revive you, once you're dead. You cannot do that in a single player. So, we needed to make it harder. So, there will be more enemies, and even tougher enemies. You will not encounter all the tougher versions of the enemies in the single-player mode.
Dan:
You mentioned revive stations. When it comes to reviving: how do you balance that as well? What stops a team of players essentially from just endlessly reviving again and again, if they're experiencing difficulty?
Milan:
Yeah, that's a good question. You actually need to use the revival station. So, you cannot just revive a person like in Call of Duty. You need to find the revival station, and use it, and then your friends will actually appear there. And we have maybe one or two per level. Because it's randomly generated, you never know where they will actually spawn. On top of that, the revive station utilizes its own form of resource, which you’ll only ever have a finite amount of. So, there are limits.
Dan:
Going back to what you said earlier, about horror, as it affects gameplay. What kind of horror mechanics are going to be introduced that makes this a horror game, instead of just a casual, Call of Duty-like, laissez faire experience?
Milan:
As I said earlier, games like System Shock are a big influence for us. Of course, we cannot compare to System Shock itself. legendary game. We [took some inspiration] when it comes to jump scares here and there, but we are really trying to put the atmosphere of being in these abandoned spaceships, where you don't have electricity and the lights flicker, or cut out, you know, things like that, but doesn't necessarily mean that the monitor will come to life and jump out at you.
Dan:
Since we're on the topic of systems, how will procedural generation play a part here? How much of the game will rely on procedural generation to create the levels and gameplay versus how much of it, if any, is handcrafted?
Milan:
We rely a lot on procedural generation. We made hundreds of rooms, and parts of said rooms, which can actually be combined, but not in a way that you will actually be able to figure out: “Hey, I was here already.” We wanted to ensure each playthrough was a somewhat unique experience, while retaining at least some consistency as to the ebb and flow of the gameplay.
Dan:
Ripout seems to take a lot of inspiration from a lot of sources, as you’ve said. I myself noticed a little bit of Doom 3, in terms of how the game prominently features interior base levels and poorly lit rooms, followed by harsh industrial-lit rooms. I'm assuming that that contrasting design choice wasn't coincidental. Can you talk about the lighting and how that works?
Milan:
That's also a good question. Regarding Doom 3, It's kind of interesting feedback that we actually got a lot from the community. And it's interesting because Doom 3 was actually not at all our inspiration. We didn't think about that game at all when designing Ripout. So that was a bit weird for us to hear in the feedback. People were like, “Well, this is similar to Doom 3”, while we don't even remember that game!
Dan:
I’m sure the developers [id Software] don’t want to remember it either…
Milan:
[Laughs] Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Dan:
After having shown off your latest demo during the recent Steam Next Fest digital event, what kinds of general feedback, setting aside the Doom 3 references, did you get from the general public? And were there any specific bits of feedback that you found especially helpful or interesting?
Milan:
Absolutely. I mean, as a long-term gamer, we were really scared of the feedback that we were going to get from Steam players. Actually, we got a lot of really positive, and often constructive, feedback. Players pointed out things that we need to change. That was a huge surprise for us, that feedback was so precise. We had like three or four things pointed out to us, by the players, that we needed to change. And [in the time between now and Ripout’s release] we can basically fix 85% of it easily. The other 15% will be a bit harder, but we're going to see about that.
Dan:
What were some of the things that people asked to be changed or fixed?
Milan:
So, the number one thing that they wanted to have changed or fixed was the speed, the movement speed in the game, which we were actually also discussing internally, we were not sure, should we do it or not, were they say, too slow or too quick or wanting to slow for sure.
And then also, they had feedback about the weapons. And so, the weapons that we were not satisfied with players were also not satisfied, which is, again, great. So, we know what we need to fix. And we're going to fix all this ahead of the full launch.
Dan:
What were some of the weapons that players were satisfied with?
Milan:
The shotgun, definitely. The feedback we got [indicated that] it's not powerful enough. And the other thing that we need to fix about the shotgun is the feel of the weapon itself. Not just the power, but when you use the shotgun, you need to feel the shot.
Dan:
Yeah, you want to feel the impact through the fire and reload animations, and the sound effects.
Milan:
Yeah, exactly!. So that's what we need to fix as well. So that would be a major aspect that we plan to keep working on, thanks to player feedback.
Dan:
So, with that in mind, what are your goals between now and when the game fully launches later this year?
Milan:
Well, we need to prepare the proper alpha and we're going to finish that one in about a month, I think. Then we're going to start doing beta and hopefully we will have it ready for Gamescom. Once again, we're still figuring out the details. Should it be like an open beta, closed beta, etc.? We're going to think about that. But we do want to have another round of feedback from the players. Specifically, to see if we actually managed to fix everything that the players wanted to see fixed.
Dan:
Sounds good. When the game releases, do you plan on committing to any post launch updates? Or will the game ship as a complete product done on day one?
Milan:
We will have post launch updates, but they will be completely free. We will not charge for any DLC, things like that. We don't want to do that. As I mentioned, we are old school gamers. We only appreciate the concept of releasing a full game for the full price. That's about it.
Dan:
So that’s a “No”, I take it, to loot boxes and NFT's then?
Milan:
Absolutely not. We don't want to go down that road. Whatever we're going to offer you in-game, it will be free updates. You will not have to pay for any post-launch content.
Ripout is set to release later this year on PlayStation 5, Xbox Series X and Series S, and PC.
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